Everyone Has an Opinion. Is There a “Right” Way to Feed My Baby?

Kriti

[ 00:00:00 ] I'm so grateful that my daughter is happy and healthy today.  And if I had to do over, I would have loved to breastfeed her.  But I do think that formula ended up being the best thing for her health and my health.  I had so much shame that I failed at feeding and that I couldn't be there for her, even though my milk was coming in.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:00:15 ] Welcome to So Glad You Asked, the show where real moms bring us their toughest questions.  I'm Dr. Ruta Nonacs, a perinatal psychiatrist at Mass General Hospital with over 30 years of experience supporting the mental health of moms.

Allie

[ 00:00:29 ] And I'm Allie Hales, a mom of four.  I know what it's like to scour the internet, wide awake at 2 a.m.  with a million questions, wondering if what I was experiencing was normal.  That's why we created this show.  It isn't just for real moms, it's by real moms.

Allie

[ 00:00:45 ] I could talk for hours about this week's topic, infant feeding challenges and choices.  Everyone I know has fed their babies differently, whether exclusively breastfeeding, formula feeding, or somewhere in between.  That's why this week we're chatting with moms who have tried it all, to hear what worked, what didn't, and how we can break down the stigma around infant feeding.  I'm joined by Susie, a stay-at-home mom, Kriti, a marketing executive and postpartum psychosis advocate, and Desiree Cameron, a full-spectrum doula and certified lactation consultant.  Whether you're expecting your first baby, navigating feeding challenges with your third, or still carrying guilt from feeding decisions you made years ago, we hope you walk away with practical insights and actionable tips to help answer your toughest feeding questions.  And remember, fed is best.

Allie

[ 00:01:34 ] I'm really excited to talk about this topic.  I think it's so important.  For me personally, I felt like a lot of the stress from having a newborn came from feeding, and being able to talk about it in this open setting with all of you who've all had different experiences and can bring those experiences and expertise is just going to be, I think, a fantastic discussion for anyone that's wanting to learn more about feeding.  Just to start, do you mind briefly introducing yourselves, describing how you fed your child or children and how that process went for you?

Desiree 

[ 00:02:11 ] My name is Desiree Cameron.  I am a mother of two and I am a full-spectrum doula and certified lactation consultant.  I also am co-owner of a parent wellness space in Michigan called Nature's Playhouse.  We're first a clinical practice where we provide therapy to all walks of life.  And our specialty is perinatal therapy and also children's therapy.  And we also have a play space and we provide body work, which is acupuncture and pilates, and all the things to support parents because we believe parents have to be well in order for us to be able to take care of our children.  So that's kind of what I do now.  My two girls were born premature.  They were one pound at 29 weeks.  And the first go-around, I didn't know much about lactation.  I didn't even know that my breasts could lactate, believe it or not.  And after my first experience with having a baby in the NICU, and she was there for three months, I learned a lot about my body and what beauty my body can do to support my child.  And so I went and got my lactation consulting certification, which I thought I was just learning about my body, but realized I got a certification in it.  And I ended up working through supporting parents and mothers and birthers and supporting their children while they're in the NICU.  So really a big advocate on that.

Kriti

[ 00:03:33 ] Hi, everyone.  My name is Kriti.  I'm a marketing and technology executive.  I now focus entirely on maternal mental health after my own lived experience with postpartum psychosis.  Personally, I have a daughter, Naina, who's four, and a dog son, Simba, who's a Labradoodle, who's six.  I'm an immigrant.  I moved to the States when I was 11 from Europe, but my family's originally from India.  And there's a lot around the tradition of feeding and culture on feeding.  And so my intent with my daughter was to breastfeed, but through a combination of her own health challenges and my own mental health crisis, proud to say that she's a formula-fed baby.  But that was really our journey: only breastfeeding for a couple of weeks and then pivoting entirely to formula for a variety of reasons.  And I'm grateful to be here with all of you.

Susie

[ 00:04:22 ] Hi, I'm Susie.  I'm a stay-at-home mom.  I live in Salt Lake City, Utah.  I have two kids.  I have a three and a half year old who's a boy.  And then I have a one year old who's also a boy.  And my feeding journey for both of them that look very different.  So for my first child, I breastfed him until he was almost two.  I stopped breastfeeding him when I got pregnant with my second.  And at that point, it was only once a day.  And then my second son, Charlie, I breastfed him for five months and then I switched to formula just due to my own preferences.  The experience was different and also my own health.  It was easier for me to get healthy after that birth without breastfeeding and doing formula instead.  So I've had two different experiences with two different kids and both have worked really well for me.  So that is my feeding journey with my kids.

Allie

[ 00:05:14 ] Some background on my feeding.  My first son was born premature also.  He was born at 33 weeks and I really didn't know anything about babies before I had a baby.  And I had been to one parenting class before and it was actually on breastfeeding.  And it totally overwhelmed me, the idea that this was something that I was going to need to do.  And I remember being in the NICU and them talking to me about how important it was for the baby to get breast milk.  So I pumped around the clock.  And he never ended up nursing.  I tried for two months to get him to nurse and I was never successful at doing that.  So I pumped for a long time.  And at a certain point, my milk supply started to drop off and I had to add in formula.  And I felt very guilty about doing that just because the rhetoric I'd always heard was you have to give your baby breast milk and that's giving him the best chance to be healthy.  And I remember just feeling horrible that I couldn't provide that for him.  And then my second daughter was born and she was a better nurser, but she had hip dysplasia and then had to be in this brace.  And anytime I tried to nurse her, the harness would be in the way.  So I tried to pump and honestly, I felt very triggered by the pumping because I had done this for my older son, Johnny.  And I ended up switching to formula.  I felt so much anxiety around this whole feeding situation.  And again, I felt so guilty feeding her formula because I just felt like I wasn't doing what was best for her.  I have four kids.  So the other two were pretty good nursers.  But honestly, my life was so chaotic with all these little kids so close together that it ended up just being easier in a lot of ways to give them a bottle and be able to feed them faster.  They were happier.  They were fed, and then I could tend to my older kids as well.  Question I wanted to pose to all of you: Just for me, I felt like this rhetoric around breastfeeding.  I understand how important it is, but when it doesn't work, what do you say to people who are experiencing something like that?

Desiree 

[ 00:07:29 ] That's a great question.  I always just kind of check in with the person and see how they're feeling about themselves and like where they are because.  I noticed that we kind of focused so much on the baby, not so much on the mother.  Is the mother stressed?  Is there a lot going on around them?  How was their birth?  Did they have a traumatic birth?  Because that all can affect breast milk.  So, kind of checking in to see where their surroundings are, like what's happening around them and trying to kind of bring clarity there first of all, so that they can find wellness in their space or the people around them.  And then I'm not a medical professional, so I always make sure that they go to the doctor and make sure that the baby's at a healthy weight.  I don't pressure breast milk.  I do say that that's the best form of milk for our babies.  But the baby has to get fed.  The baby has to grow.  And I would love.  To see the clients that I have at least try it and see if they like it and helping them like build a routine.  Because in a lot of cases, there's not a lactation consultant that's supporting a mother nor a doula or anything like that.  So they're literally figuring it out on their own while reading a book that could mean so many different things.  So just giving that parent grace and also really honing in on the partner too and letting the partner know, hey.  She's willing to breastfeed.  How can we support her?  I think in most cases when we're not able to breastfeed, it's just because of the lack of support around us to kind of make that space for us to breastfeed.

Kriti

[ 00:08:57 ] I'd love to build on that.  This is a topic that's hard for me to talk about being South Asian.  One thing I just want to say that was behind what Desiree said is this concept I wish I had heard sooner of 'fed is best.'  Interestingly, while I did not have a lactation consultant in South Asian culture.  There's so much tradition around taking care of mom.  My mom moved in with me.  I, through pregnancy, was having things for my milk production early on.  There's like herbs and spices.  There's certain things you eat.  I mean, everything was sort of preparing my body.  There was so much support preparing my body for breastfeeding, which is what I wanted.  Admittedly, that really is what I wanted for our family.  And so the reason I think Fed is Best is so important because We had all intent and purpose of breastfeeding our child for a variety of reasons.  But before even my own mental health crisis, she couldn't latch properly.  So we had to use something called a shield, which made breastfeeding really arduous.  I wasn't sleeping.  And it took hours and hours on end.  And also, figuratively and literally, I was exposed; so I couldn't wear clothing, which I felt really uncomfortable about.  So, to your point, Desiree, like before even my crisis, maybe a couple weeks in when we were really trying with the feeding and even a little bit of pumping, she lost a third of her body weight and it became very evident that, like, we needed to go to plan B right away.  And so for us, I was still pumping at the time, but it was formula.  And then eventually, with my crisis, you know, when I was hospitalized, I didn't have access; I wish I had access to lactation resources, but also the medication that I needed to keep me well and recovered and alive.  precluded me from breastfeeding at that time.  And so ultimately, I'm so grateful that my daughter is happy and healthy today.  And if I had to do over, I would have loved to breastfeed her.  But I do think that formula ended up being the best thing for her health and my health.  I had so much shame that I failed at feeding and that I couldn't be there for her, even though my milk was coming in.  Thank you for sharing that.

Allie

[ 00:10:55 ] Like you said, there's so many things that are unpredictable.  And even if you have the best laid plan.  It doesn't always go that way.  I feel like most of the time it doesn't go that way.  With each of my four kids, I felt like this is going to be the time where it all works out.  And it just never worked out how I thought it would.  But in the end, my kids are all healthy and they all were fed.  And I feel ultimately good about the decisions that we made, even though at the time it was really hard to let go of plan A.  I know Susie, you've had experiences with one child going with plan A and then another child just not.  So I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit.

Susie

[ 00:11:38 ] So my plan A was my first child.  And I've had a history of different mental health challenges in my life.  So I was actually expecting to have a really hard time breastfeeding and was expecting to not enjoy it.  I was pleasantly surprised after I had my first son that it was going really well.  I was a stay-at-home mom.  He was my only child.  I can really focus all my energy on him.  And admittedly, breastfeeding did take up a lot of time.  And Teddy was a really easy nurser.  He didn't have a lip tie or a tongue tie.  He latched well, he ate well, and he grew well.  So that was awesome.  And I'm so grateful for that.  The second experience I had was a little bit different.  The breastfeeding, the latch was difficult.  He was very fussy when he was breastfeeding.  So every breastfeeding experience felt like I was fighting to feed him.  And it was stressful.  I also was trying to get myself healthy at the time.  And I think it's important to remember that there are so many different ways we can be amazing parents.  But I think that for me, I was stuck on breastfeeding is the best way for me.  But I needed to remind myself that really the best way to be a mom is to make it doable for myself.  And it was really hard for me this time around to have an enjoyable experience and to balance the sitting around.  Breastfeeding him for extended periods of time while I had my other son at home and he was still pretty young and so he really did need a lot of attention from me, and so for me the decision to switch over to formula was an emotional one.  I went back and forth and I was so grateful I chose to switch over because for me I just needed to make this experience with having two children versus one child doable, and it was just much more doable, and I was a much happier and healthier mom personally, when I switched over this time around.  And it is interesting seeing the difference, because I had a great experience breastfeeding the first time.  And the second time it created more stress in my life and it was less doable for me.  So that's why I decided to switch over to formula because it made parenting more doable.  And I think that is when I could be the better parent for my children.

Allie

[ 00:13:45 ] Thanks for sharing that, Susie.  Desiree, I wonder if you could speak to how you approach your clients, how you troubleshoot these issues.  At what point do you recommend alternative feeding solutions for clients?

Desiree 

[ 00:14:00 ] That's a great question.  Because I'm a certified lactation consultant, there's also an IBCLC, which is an international breastfeeding certified lactation consultant.  And the difference between the two of us is as a CLC, I don't touch the patient or the client at all, but I more observe.  And then I kind of look to see latching and all that.  and then support in ways that we can make this kind of more of a holistic wellness experience for them.  The IBCLC will definitely look more in detail.  They will weigh the baby.  They can actually touch the baby, touch the mom.  They can adjust the breasts to make sure that it's perfectly latched and things like that.  And they're very good at checking for tongue ties and certain things that happen to the baby once they're born that can affect breastfeeding.  So I always make sure I have a great community around me that can support with those types of complexities of breastfeeding.  I more support families that just had a baby and are just learning how to latch and about their body.  And I really try to have a conversation with them before the baby comes, of kind of what this experience is, because when we look on TV, it makes it look like breastfeeding is this just amazing, like, oh, you know, we're in the garden kind of thing.  And so.  Prepping parents to be like, this is the journey of it.  And not saying that their journey would be like mine, but kind of giving them kind of an idea of what this experience is going to look like and how to prepare themselves is really important before the baby comes.  So prenatal support is always something that I suggest to my clients to make sure they're really checking in on what to expect when the baby comes home.  What support systems do you have around you?  And, really, asking yourself, do I want to breastfeed?  And I think too, sometimes.  I know within my community, the Black community, we don't talk about breastfeeding as much.  Even the statistics show that we have a very low rate in breastfeeding.  And that's because there's just no conversation about it.  And we weren't taught the beauty of what breast milk can do for our children.  So I really make sure to bring that up in our conversations prenatally before the baby is here.

Allie

[ 00:16:01 ] I love what you said.  I think it's really powerful.  And I didn't really know that much about.  Breast milk or nursing before.  And it is really incredible what our bodies can do.  And I think it can be hard to advocate for yourself at the beginning, especially if you don't know the statistics or you don't know what the experience is going to be like.  The question that I have for all of you is having gone through these experiences, what is something that you would say to your younger self starting this journey?

Kriti

[ 00:16:32 ] I can jump in.  I can relate to so much of what Desiree said.  In some ways, it's like breastfeeding was like there was no other choice.  Like there was no conversations around it.  But I do think there's choices and trade-offs, right?  Be they physical, be they emotional, be they what you said, Susie, about making it doable.  And just for context, like I remember after switching to formula, hiding the bottle, not telling anyone that was formula fed.  To this day, if I talk to other South Asian parents and I explain formula, they're sort of like, 'do the little head nod', kind of, oh, okay.  Like, sorry you had to do with that.  And it sounds apologetic.  And frankly, like, even taking my mental health out of it, like, it just wasn't working for my daughter, similar to, you know, what Susie was saying with number two.  And so I just think that the fact that, like, conversations matter.  I think I just accepted, like.  We're going to talk about all the nutritional herbs that I'm going to have to like have more milk production, but we're not going to talk about the fact that I have a bottle in the background or not have a bottle in the background or that, you know, my daughter will be okay.  It's amazing if I can, I can give her that milk.  And I did for a couple of weeks of her life, but you know, beyond that, it didn't make sense.  And the last thing I'll add on the cultural side, just for the South Asians, is that, I love what you said earlier, Desiree, about like the family and the partner.  And so I think for some of us, we've grown up in environments where maybe in the generation above us, partner was absence from the equation, like feeding being mom's problem.  Be it pumping, be it breastfeeding, be it formula.  And actually, my partner was the one who felt liberated to be able to actually take as much ownership of the process when his wife wasn't well and to get his baby's weight back on track.  So I just think that conversations matter, obviously with your provider and advocating, but I think also like what you said earlier, like sitting down with your partner if you have one and what's best for you, I think, and your family is also important.  And just because I grew up in a household where it was like breastfeeding or bust doesn't mean that that's the right choice for our family.  And so I think there's just so much around that that I would want to say to myself, but also to anyone else out there who can speak to sort of the cultural challenges of not feeling like that choice or those conversations exist.

Allie

[ 00:18:41 ] Thank you.  That's such an important point to me.  Susie, do you have any advice for your younger self?

Susie

[ 00:18:46 ] Yes.  I feel like a really important thing is to not compare your experience and your journey with other people.  Breastfeeding, bottle feeding, feeding your baby is such an emotional and also personal experience for everybody.  It's really hard to compare.  It's like comparing your relationship with somebody else's relationship.  Each individual involved in this experience, the mother and the baby, are different individuals.  So it was interesting for me, like I said earlier.  So my two experiences feeding my children have been completely different because the people involved were different.  So the relationship that I had with breastfeeding changed based on the baby I was doing it with.  So that was really eye-opening to me because if we're being completely honest, the first time around, it worked so well for me.  I was like, oh, I don't know why everyone doesn't do this.  It's so easy.  It works so well.  It's so convenient.  And second time around, I think I really gained a lot more empathy because the challenges I went through were small compared to others.  I feel like it really did give me some good insight in realizing that this experience that I had was really a working relationship that I have with me and my baby, my body, my baby.  And it was different both times.  So it helped me realize there's no comparison that you can have that is helpful in these situations.  And it's good to remember that each individual, including yourself and the baby, changes every time you do it.

Desiree 

[ 00:20:09 ] I love all of that.  And that's usually what I tell clients too.  Please don't compare yourself to others, much less the books that you're reading.  They're sharing their experience, but it doesn't mean that that book actually is your experience.  So really making sure to hone in on that.  For me, it was the connection between myself and my baby.  That was like the most important thing.  And for me, I breastfed my babies up to four years old, but they were formula fed as well.  So it was both, but we have to remove the judgment hat.  In so many ways, it's already the system that we live in is, you know, very male-centered.  And so we really have to think about what this pressure that we're putting on ourselves, like, where is it coming from?  And really like honing in on like, what do I need?  What will support me?  And what does my baby need?  My baby is relying on me to take care of myself so that I can take care of it.  Or this baby, this child, this beautiful child that came out of my body that I worked really hard to get out, you know?  So it really stands there.  And, you know, just having that support system around you, partner, mother, aunt, friend, that really understands you and nourishes you, even if you're formula feeding, because you still need to be nourished in order for you to be mentally well as well.

Allie

[ 00:21:26 ] One thing that I was hoping you could speak to as well is how to balance work with having a new baby.

Kriti

[ 00:21:34 ] I can jump in.  I was working like 60 to 70 hour weeks after my leave and at big companies.  And so I think the advice I leave for working mothers, regardless of what your feeding choice or circumstances look like is an advice someone gave me, which is motherhood is as much about managing your energy as your time.  And so I think like it comes down to boundaries.  I'm not a therapist.

Desiree 

[ 00:21:58 ] That's a great question.  The laws for lactation say you're supposed to pump six to eight times a day.  To expect that I'm working and I'm supposed to pump that many times in a day.  Usually, I tell them it doesn't have to be six to eight times, but I do hope that they hydrate because especially being at work, you forget that you're supposed to be hydrating as well.  And then really doing your pumping first thing in the morning, almost as like a practice.  And then also making sure that you're doing at least two pumps when you get home from work.  I always tell my clients to make sure that they have a conversation with the human resources department and let them know like, hey, I am going to be breastfeeding and I need to make time for this.  And it can't be during my lunchtime because I need to pump these many times.  This is what I need.  Or is there a place that I can pump?  Because, you know, you have to be in a clean space.  You have to wipe down things.  You know, breast milk kind of sprays wherever it wants to.  Like you really want to be in a space that you feel comfortable in.  You don't want to be in a cubicle where somebody is looking over, you know, all of those things.  So really having a conversation, letting them know, like advocating for yourself.  Where can I go?  This is the time that I need.  Also speaking with your supervisor if you have that or, you know, letting your team know like, hey, we don't have that conversation and breastfeeding shouldn't be a secret.  It shouldn't be.  Also, I think that when it comes on to pumping and also just, you know, like formula, if you feel like it's your body, so if you feel like breastfeeding or breast pumping is going to be stressful to you, why add the stress on yourself when you have an alternative that you feel confident about that you can give your baby?  It's about your confidence in yourself and what you choose to do for your child.  And as we know, comments are going to happen constantly.  No matter where we are, people are always going to have a comment, but it's also about our confidence and how we're feeling.  How are we building our confidence in ourselves that the decisions that we're making, we feel confident about?  And that's kind of what I've been supporting my clients with when they go back to work, but also making sure they have a plan.  If they do choose to breastfeed, really writing out a plan for them, like a schedule that they have that they can constantly, you know, know what they want and how they want to breastfeed or support their baby with breast milk.  Sometimes I even have them put a little alarm in their phones for like twice a day while they're at work.  So they kind of have an idea of a schedule that can help them with breastfeeding.

Kriti

[ 00:24:17 ] I want to acknowledge that sometimes when your planning doesn't go as planned or maybe your plans look different for different children, there can be grief and loss, whether that's grief and loss of time spent with kids because you're pumping, whether that's grief and loss of I can't nourish my child with my own milk.  But finding other ways to connect and heal through that grief and loss, I think, is important.  And then in the work setting, setting boundaries to say, well, what does connection look like and how might that change?  And so, OK, maybe I didn't have that intimate connection, you know, with breastfeeding and the way that I was hoping to, and I feel lost around that.  But when it came to solids, I was able to cultivate and bring some of that back or do other things and rituals with my daughter or my partner that helped me really feel connected to her.  Maybe they look different than what I expected.  So I just think that like acknowledging grief and loss, but also thinking about your energy and time and how you set healthy boundaries, be it with workplace or your mental health or whatever you need, I think is really important.  And whatever you're doing, again, fed is best.  And you've seen it from all the different people that have shared on this call.  We've all had different experiences, but we all love our children and we all know what's best for them.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:25:18 ] Thank you, Allie, Desiree, Kriti, and Susie, for speaking so openly about your feeding experiences. At this point, the American Academy of Pediatrics and other medical organizations recommend that moms breastfeed their babies exclusively for the first six months. And that recommendation is based on data we have that there are many immune benefits of breastfeeding, and this can reduce the risk of certain types of infections for the baby. However, many of the other long-term benefits of breastfeeding, like improvements in IQ and cognitive development, are overstated. And we have several large studies recently which show that if you look at all factors and you take into consideration what's going on in the family and other social factors, the differences between breastfed and formula fed infants are actually much smaller than other people report.

What's often left out of the conversation is how breastfeeding difficulties can affect a mom's mental health. When there is so much pressure to breastfeed, moms often feel guilty and a sense of shame, or they feel like they're failing when they're having problems with breastfeeding. And this can contribute to their vulnerability to postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety, and can also make it more difficult to bond with a baby. It's important to remember that there are many different ways to feed your baby. Only one in four women are able to breastfeed exclusively for the first six months, and that's okay.

The best choice is the one that works for you and your baby. As a reminder, please note that this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical care. The views, thoughts, and opinions shared today are the speaker's own. Your feedback and questions drive this show, so feel free to send us an email at podcast@womensmentalhealth.org or leave a voicemail at 617-643-9232.

Allie

[ 00:26:13 ] This is So Glad You Asked with Dr. Ruta Nonacs and Allie Hales, brought to you by the MGH Center for Women's Mental Health and the J.  Willard and Alice S.  Marriott Foundation.  Additional resources are available at Dr. Ruta's resource hub at womensmentalhealth.org.  Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.