I Lost My Mom While Pregnant. How Do I Move Forward?

Sarah

[ 00:00:00 ] So my son's only nine months old, and right now I'm still in the phase where all of his milestones, like you said, do feel like a marker of time since my mom passed away. Are you able now to celebrate your daughter's birthdays in a way that brings joy and feels celebratory, or is it always marked with the grief component to it?

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:00:22 ] Welcome to So Glad You Asked. The show where real moms bring us their toughest questions. I'm Dr. Ruta Nonacs, a perinatal psychiatrist at Mass General Hospital with over 30 years of experience supporting the mental health of moms.

Allie

[ 00:00:36 ] And I'm Allie Hales, a mom of four. I know what it's like to scour the internet wide awake at 2 a.m. with a million questions, wondering if what I was experiencing was normal. That's why we created this show. It isn't just for real moms, it's by real moms. Today, we're exploring a tough but important topic, grief during pregnancy and the postpartum period. You'll first hear from a mother who navigated the loss of her own mom while pregnant with her second child and how that profound loss shaped her postpartum experience, including her struggle with postpartum depression. Later, we sit down with Hannah, a seasoned labor and delivery nurse and perinatal behavioral health coach. She offers compassionate guidance for navigating grief in the perinatal period and supporting emotional healing after a loss. Whether you're in the midst of grief or walking alongside someone who is, we hope this episode offers you practical insights, gentle validation, and a sense of connection wherever you are in your story.

Sarah

[ 00:01:41 ] When I was six months pregnant with my younger son, my mom passed away after an eight or nine month battle with pancreatic cancer. So when I got pregnant, we knew that it was unlikely that she would live to meet the baby, but not impossible. So when I shared my pregnancy with my family, there was a very muted reaction from my parents and my brothers. They just had a really hard time expressing joy, even though I know they felt it. I think their primary expression at the time was just like sadness and the reality of what we were going through, and then when my son was born, I had already been dealing with depression from my mom passing away, but I had a really hard time connecting with like the joy and love and positivity of having a newborn. And I haven't been able to shake the feeling or the question if there was some kind of seed planted early on in those early days, like telling my family, and their lack of joy, just like living in me, and impairing my ability to express that joy to my son when he was born. It was a really difficult time. And just not having that positivity to sort of like support and boost me up, and fuel what I couldn't tap into myself.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:02:56 ] First of all, I'm really sorry that you had what sounds like a really terrifically painful experience during pregnancy and the postpartum, even if you weren't pregnant, it would have been really hard to lose your mom, and to have things proceed so quickly. I think your question is a really good one. And I think we don't talk enough about loss that can occur within the context of pregnancy. And it could be loss of a loved one. It could be loss of a pregnancy. But I think all of those potentially have an impact on how we adjust to having a new baby at home, how we experience our ability to transition to a new role. And I think when we think of risk factors for postpartum depression, there are the things that sort of are within us, like genetic factors, vulnerability to depression or anxiety, hormonal factors. But then there are sort of external or psychosocial factors, which really can play a very important role. And the ones that we think of most are sort of recent stressful life events. So your mom's illness, her death probably had an impact on you on multiple different levels, and it's clearly a stressful life event. The other factor we think about is social supports, and our own moms play a really special role in that support network. So your support network had a stumble and fall during pregnancy. And I think because it was your mom and the context of your family, it also took out your support network from your family. So you're not only dealing with caring for a newborn, you're in the acute stages of grief. And you're also having to navigate something new. You have two kids, so your mom probably played a much bigger role during the first child's early days. And now you're navigating this new territory.

Sarah

[ 00:05:06 ] Absolutely. And I think it's interesting. I had a hard time expressing to people like this is my mom. And some people, when you say my mom, that means to them what it meant to me. My mom was my best friend. So when you say to somebody that was my mom, some people immediately intuitively feel that and some people don't. And trying to make people feel the weight of that loss was really hard to communicate. And hearing you say that so many people like turn to their mom in that postpartum pregnancy period is really validating to like what I was trying to communicate to folks that like this wasn't just any loss. This was a huge part of my support system like physically, emotionally, logistically, socially. So that just feels really validating to what I was having a hard time of having people grasp.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:05:52 ] And I think it is really challenging communicating your own personal sense of grief.

Sarah

[ 00:05:59 ] Yeah. And there was also, which I feel like this actually really added to my postpartum depression. There was a lot of toxic positivity. So when my mom passed away, I was visibly pregnant. And a lot of people, especially like my mom's age, would say things to me like. But it's such a joy that you're bringing new life in as life is leaving this, like circle of life kind of narrative. Like you have this beautiful thing to look forward to. And so then when Pierce was born and I didn't feel that joy, I felt even worse because I was like, everyone's telling me that this should be healing and it's not healing for me. That just really like doubled down on the guilt that I felt around not feeling bonded to him.

Allie

First of all, I'm so sorry for everything that you went through. And I think going through an experience where you're feeling birth and death, like these total opposites so close together is just complicated. A little bit of background on me: Our third child was born right before COVID. She's five now. And about 36 hours after she was born, our niece died in this freak accident. She was 10 years old. And we were still in the hospital. I'd had a C-section. And when we got the news, it just was so hard to process something like that. And it's not this kind of equal sum equation of, oh, well, there's a loss, but then there's a gain. That's not the right situation for that analogy. And I think trying to process both of those things is complicated. And then we were excited about the birth of our daughter, but her growing also marked how long it had been since our niece had died. And feeling we were excited about milestones and birthdays and things for her. But then it also marked this passage of time, which is just a complicated thing.

Sarah

[ 00:07:48 ] First of all, really sorry that happened to you and your family, Allie. Your daughter is five, you said. So this sort of gets at another part of the question that I have. So my son's only nine months old. And right now, I'm still in the phase where all of his milestones, like you said, do feel like a marker of time. Since my mom passed away, are you able now to celebrate your daughter's birthdays in a way that brings joy and feels celebratory? Or is it always marked with the grief component to it?

Allie

[ 00:08:21 ] I really credit my sister-in-law and brother-in-law because when this happened, she was their oldest of five. And they really addressed all of these kind of big emotions and feelings very head-on. They were always very open about their experience. They sought help when needed. And they've really done an incredible job of really coaching their whole family through it. And when I've talked to her, the grief doesn't ever go away, right? It's just something that you live with. And that was one of my questions too, was, will I ever be able to celebrate JoJo's birthday without also mourning the death of our niece? I think the passage of time, like it's a painful thing, but in some ways it can be healing too. And I feel like for us, we've been able to celebrate our niece and remember her and have these really happy, wonderful memories of her interactions with us and our kids, but then also be excited about time moving forward for this daughter as well. Yes, we have been able to get there, but. I didn't see that at the time as something that we would be able to go to. Ruta, I have the same question as well. How do you sort of feel both of those really big emotions in the same space, like in the same time?

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:09:40 ] I think it is really, really challenging. When we think about grief, part of it is telling the story or making sense of the story. And so for both of you, the equation of somebody going out and somebody coming back in just doesn't work. It's oversimplified. The grieving process is finding supportive spheres where you can experience that joy and other supportive spheres where you can experience that loss and the grief. And they probably don't coincide. I love the phrase toxic positivity because I think that is something that a lot of women with postpartum depression go through. So it's really important to find your people and your community when you have postpartum depression. And if you're a mom and are trying to associate with other new moms who are telling you how wonderful this is and how great it is, it's going to feel terrible. So I think really finding a community, people you can talk to, it's really important to share that story. Some people like to journal, some people like sort of bereavement support groups. Other people find comfort in their religious community. You might not settle upon the right solution right away, but you keep trying and you find different people for different things.

Sarah

[ 00:11:09 ] That's helpful because that's sort of the fear that I have is that Pierce's life will forever be 'he'll have a mom who lost her mom and is a different person than Simon, who had three years of a mom who had her mom and was a different person. I have a hard time seeing what five years from now is like and not worrying that like my postpartum journey and my grief when Pierce was born didn't change his personality forever.

Allie

[ 00:11:37 ] I'll let Dr. Ruta speak to the more medical, but I think all of our experiences shape who we are. And when I look at my sister-in-law and this death that she experienced in her family, like she is a different person from before when it happened to after. In a lot of ways, she's grown in ways that she didn't expect and not that it would ever make up for a loss. But I do think she approaches different situations with a totally deeper, newer perspective. And so while Pierce is not going to have the same mom in the first couple of years that Simon did, I think you are bringing other experiences to this. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just a different thing.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:12:25 ] I couldn't have said it better. But I think life continues to happen when you have kids. And both the good things and the bad things, the tragic things, all are incorporated into that mix. We have many women who experience postpartum depression, and that can complicate how one connects with their child, but there's a lot of resilience in that system. And I think as a mom, it's really hard because you bear so much responsibility for everything that happens to your child, everything you do, everything you ate during pregnancy, every book you read. I think it puts a lot of pressure on you. And I think it's OK to grieve and it's OK to not be OK. And I think there's also this sort of concept that there's a normal way to grieve. And like if you're not over it by a certain time or if you didn't do it a certain way, there's something wrong with you. But everybody has very individual experiences.

Sarah

[ 00:13:29 ] I think my experience of grief before this was I imagined I would be like one of those people on a TV show who's like in their robe with Chinese takeout containers and the curtains drawn. That's not the reality of one, just life, two, life with kids for sure. And I think this is all really helpful because the thing, like you said, Dr. Ruta, the responsibility of being a mom and feeling like everything you do for your kids has an impact on them. And I can't live in a parallel world where this didn't happen. And then Pierce was born into a different reality. And that's. That's just like a really hard thing to sit with, to know that this is who he is and this is the life and family he was born into. And I think, like, separating what is my fault or responsibility from that because of what I was going through at the time is something that I'm like trying to work through now.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:14:19 ] And I think, this is where, sort of having those support networks where you feel comfortable talking about these things and you get validation and support and don't feel bad about sharing those things. Because I think just holding it in or thinking like, 'I've got to have all this under control because I have to be 100% mom now.' That's just not going to work.

Allie

[ 00:14:43 ] And I think it's tricky trying to be that 100% mom all the time because you love your kids and it's hard to come to a point where you realize like, 'Your 100% is not the same every day.' Like one day it can look like this, another day it can look like this, and that's okay too. And I think one of the things that we would like to talk to you, Sarah, and you, Dr. Ruta, about is just advice or resources that you found that's helpful for maybe someone that's in a similar situation as you, Sarah, whether it's grieving a loss or postpartum depression.

Sarah

[ 00:15:16 ] I honestly think the biggest thing for me has been really focusing on being an individual therapy. I started seeing an EMDR therapist who could help me like move through some of it without having to do a lot of the intellectual work because that felt really exhausting to me. And it was really hard to make the time to do that, especially with little kids. But that's been really important. And taking some time. I know this is not available to everybody, but I think even like a weekend would have been nice by myself away from my kids and away from my husband. And I took my journal. I took my crocheting. I took like a writing prompt book. I took a coloring book. Like I took all these things that I enjoy, and spending time with my hands was another really important healing thing for me to do.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:16:00 ] I think when I'm in this situation with someone clinically. The first thing I want to do is focus on supports and making sure that there are people lined up to help you with all different types of support, whether it's childcare or emotional. I think individual therapy can be such an important part of that mix of having support and somebody who's not affected by your grief in a personal kind of way. I think from sort of my doctor perspective, I also think grief can get commingled with depression, as you had. So I think what we need for grief might be slightly different than what we need for depression. And if you have untreated depression or anxiety, it can kind of make the grieving process difficult. There's a person, Hope Edelman, who has become really an expert in the grief process in women who have lost their mothers. And she has had a book, which is one of those New York Times bestsellers called Motherless Mothers. And I think it has a certain community associated with it. So you have the sense that other people have had the same experience.

Allie

[ 00:17:16 ] Thank you so much, Sarah, for sharing. It was really wonderful to be able to talk to you.

Sarah

[ 00:17:21 ] Thank you all so much for chatting with me and holding this space to be able to talk about it.

Allie

[ 00:17:28 ] Joining us now is Hannah, a mom, nurse, and advocate who shares what she has learned from her experience of loss during the perinatal period, including her own struggles with postpartum depression.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:17:41 ] Thank you so much, Hannah, for joining us. And we're really delighted to have you here. You wear multiple hats. You've had many years of experience as a registered labor and delivery nurse, and you're now working as a perinatal behavioral health coach. And I was wondering if you could start off by telling us about your pregnancy and postpartum experience.

Hannah

[ 00:18:07 ] Of course, I'm a mom of two. I have two girls, ages four and six. I experienced postpartum depression and anxiety after both of them, but it was far more intense after the birth of my youngest daughter. She was born June 2020, so right in the height of the pandemic when it was just so many unknowns and so many questions. I would say even my anxiety probably started even before postpartum and I was still working in the hospital at that point. After having my older daughter have postpartum depression and anxiety, I wanted to start on medication right away because I didn't want to feel as poorly as I did during that time. So I talked about it throughout my pregnancy with my doctor saying once I deliver, I want to start back on medication because I want to try and be proactive. In December, my brother-in-law contracted COVID. And he was incredibly ill and hospitalized for a few weeks and ended up passing away. So when he passed away, I was already in treatment for myself for postpartum depression. And it was just a very complicated time because I remember I would be in group and it was actually the day that he was taken off life support that I was in a partial hospitalization program. And I was involved in group, but I took it. It was all via Zoom because of COVID. And my mom had texted me asking, can you please come to the house? I need help because my sister has two young girls. She said, I can't do this alone. So I'm, while still trying to take care of myself, also trying to help and take care of my family. It just felt like such a juggle that I didn't know how to do.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:19:59 ] I'm so sorry that you had all of those experiences. And I think COVID has been a tremendous loss or stress for so many moms. And I don't think we've fully recovered from that experience. And in terms of how it shaped all of those experiences of pregnancy and postpartum with all the anxiety and the loss.

Hannah

[ 00:20:24 ] When I put my coaching hat on, what I'll always say to anyone that I'm talking to is if something unexpected and unanticipated happened, even if it's not like the loss of a person, but an unexpected change that went away that you weren't hoping for, it's still okay to mourn what you wished was. And I think it's important to acknowledge that too, that mourning of, you know, things didn't go as planned, but how do we kind of move forward from it?

Allie

[ 00:20:53 ] I had a question too, Hannah. I mean, just all that you went through, you're so incredibly strong and brave to then even, you know, when your family was experiencing that, even just to have the headspace that you wanted to help your family, even with all that you were personally going through, I think is incredible. What do you feel like, if anything, helped you recover or heal in some way from some of these things? Like how did you re-engage as a mom?

Hannah

[ 00:21:23 ] I think just leaning on those around me and being honest. I had not told many because of everything going on with COVID and my brother-in-law, I didn't fully divulge even to my own family about how dark of a place I was in and that I was enrolled in a partial hospitalization program and actually had a plan to admission date to a hospital to receive inpatient treatment. I didn't tell that to them until I think it was the day before his wake because I didn't want to burden anybody. After being honest that not only am I sad and depressed because of this loss, but also because of postpartum, it allowed a sense of vulnerability and understanding of myself, but also those that were there to support me as well. So kind of finding that community, whether it's family or friends, support group. Support groups can be really helpful. That's one thing that I had been hoping to find in my area during this time, and there were none. So, that was one of my goals once I reached my point of feeling fully healed is starting a support group. Peer support is very helpful in the sense that it helps you feel not alone. It helps you feel that, okay, these feelings are okay and not me being depressed. Other people get it too.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:22:55 ] Just sort of observing both you and a lot of women that I've worked with, I've also seen sort of this prolonged healing process where a lot of women who have had postpartum depression actually get involved in peer support or advocacy because they felt that there was no one there for them. And they really turn that horrible experience into something positive and helpful for other women.

Hannah

[ 00:23:24 ] What I always say is that if I can take my experience that was so dark and difficult, and turn it into something. If I even just by telling my story or sharing resources, if I even help one mom, then it makes my experience worth it.

Allie

[ 00:23:42 ] Thank you so much, Hannah, for sharing. And I think your perspective, your resources, your advocacy, I think is making such a huge difference for so many women.

Hannah

[ 00:23:53 ] Absolutely. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you guys listening and all those listening to this. Just having that open ear.

Allie

[ 00:24:01 ] Thanks for joining us today. As we wrap up this episode, remember that experiencing loss during pregnancy or the postpartum period can increase the risk of mood and anxiety disorders, especially when that loss affects your support system. Grief doesn't follow a straight line, and there's no right way to move through it. Sometimes the pressure to constantly stay positive can make it even harder to be honest about what you're feeling. While grief doesn't disappear, healing is possible, especially when you have spaces where you can hold both joy and sorrow. If your grief starts to feel tangled up with depression or anxiety, don't wait to reach out. Getting support can make a real difference. We hope this episode encourages you to honor your experience, seek out community support, and know that you're not in this alone.

Dr. Ruta

[ 00:24:50 ] As a reminder, please note that this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical care. The views, thoughts, and opinions shared today are the speaker's own. Your feedback and questions drive this show, so feel free to send us an email at podcast@womensmentalhealth.org or leave a voicemail at 617-643-9232.

Allie

This is So Glad You Asked with Dr. Ruta Nonacs and Allie Hales. Brought to you by the MGH Center for Women's Mental Health and the J. Willard and Alice S. Marriott Foundation. Additional resources are available at Dr. Ruta's Resource Hub at womensmentalhealth.org. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.